Posts by mama bear

This is such a great idea! I might put it into practice myself with my family who are still WAITING for the END which of course is close at hand, near at hand, at the threshold, right around the corner! :::gagging:::: where is Chicken Little when you need him!

Not cruel at all just a really great idea...market it...create 'stream of time' post cards...we can all contribute ideas, visuals....one could be a line of the WTS Presidents lined up like dominos each one that has died shown fallen and the line going through them being the 'stream of time line' starting from the date they first started this 'close at hand' countdown. It could end with the statement from Jesus " But as these things start to occur, raise yourselves erect and lift YOUR heads up, because YOUR deliverance is getting near." [Luke 21:28] Showing the contrast 'in the stream of time' between standing up and being attentive and falling down in death...which somehow nullifies how 'close at hand' the 'end' was/is! I know they caught my attention in 1970 with the 'right around the corner' slogan...thing is...by now we've all been around a FEW corners and it still eludes us.They do not want to fall into the bunch that are saying 'where is this promised presence of his'? :::wink::::

47

Letter from a dear friend and elder.

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

i had sent dale a copy of my da letter, and a personal one.

i showed only kindness, though disgust with the organizations' moral bankruptcy and doctrinal miscues.

yet the robotic mind sees all things in a twisted light of god/organization.

mama bear

AK - Jeff shared: -- You have made a deadly mistake, at a very unfortunate place in the stream of time.

I see love from the Faithful slave and it's governing body, while the tone of your letter and the action you have said you will take are full of hatred. That, my friend, is the spirit of the world, not that of my Faithful Friend and God, Jehovah.

I will miss you. It is a crushing loss!

Love - Dale

PS- Killing people at Armageddon? Matt 24:37-41 Is the way of Jehovah not adjusted right?

Threats, condemnation, arrogance, misapplication of scripture! Aren't we all glad we are no longer part of that 'love'?

Jeff, I am sorry for the since of loss I know this man's response has caused you to feel. It never gets any easier. I have found it is simply easier to pray for their own release from captivity into the Freedom in Christ and leave it in God's hands. Your love for him despite his programmed response will always warm the memory portion of your heart.

So sorry religions exist that create such inhumane feelings in their subjects. It does not do God proud regardless of who they claim to worship.

47

Letter from a dear friend and elder.

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

i had sent dale a copy of my da letter, and a personal one.

i showed only kindness, though disgust with the organizations' moral bankruptcy and doctrinal miscues.

yet the robotic mind sees all things in a twisted light of god/organization.

mama bear

Confession wrote: -- And that IS a remarkable delusion, isn't it? A perfectly intelligent human being, so indoctrinated he cannot separate his concept of "Jehovah" from the organization that has stolen his mind. I feel certain this is how my mother and family will act when they finally receive my ever-evolving letter.

The WTS provides a thick stream of warm gravy that flows over ones head. When one is presented with rational evidence that the organization isn't what it claims to be, one momentarily pokes his head out of that seepage. It feels cold and uncomfortable, so ones heart draws him back and ones mind speeds to contrive the logic for doing so. He returns to the artificial-but-warm oozing of reconstituted gravy --

WOAH! What a GREAT, FANTASTIC and PERFECT response! and the added visual was awesome!

10

If you were still serving Jehovah...

by Honesty in

jw
friends

just think of all the fun work that he would have you doing after armageddon.. a devout jw has some thoughts on this.

are you able to read the following without getting ?.

reading between the lines shows just how much compassion the watchtower society instills in its devoted proponents:.

mama bear

Amazing wrote: -- Its scary to see how screwy the JWs are becoming, and how they do not even understand their own teachings --

Isn't it though!

Loved your repost with corrected theology. As I read the initial post my mind was going...'but what happened to Jehovah perhaps using anti matter to do away with the big mess' or the 'birds of prey gobbling the flesh of the fallen'.. or waiting until the end of the 1000 yrs to 'attain to perfection'??? There were so many holes in the initial venture. Obviously it was the convoluted application of what the author wants from their religion which we read. This brings up a great point however. With more and more of this stuff out there for everyone to read it will make it less and less likely the WTS annual report will reflect significant growth. THINKING people will be repelled by such stuff perhaps employ some compassion for the believers of it and will make a mental note to themselves to definitely NOT ANSWER the door the next time they knock! I would sure not want to be a Witness nowadays....besides all the stuff that is legitimately in print the Witness is being scrutenized over at the doors it is coupled with the scrutiny of stuff like this post suggests the Witness is going to have to encounter at the doors too. How EMBARRASSING could that be! :::::::::::::::::::trailing off in unbounded laughter::::::::::::::::::::::::::

21

My (JW) dad called.

by SPAZnik in

jw
friends

for the 4th time in 6 years.

who is this man and why do i feel obligated to talk to him .

just because he and my mother eff'd each other over .

mama bear

SPAZnik wrote: -- For the 4th time in 6 years.

Who is this man and why do I feel obligated to talk to him
just because he and my mother eff'd each other over
for a few years back in the 70's?

It's like he calls me just to grill, critique and reject me over and over again. It's like I'm never good enough to love as is. Must be more perfect (particularly by JW definition). I'm nowhere near living up to His Dream Of Me.

Maybe this relationship needs to end.
It certainly needs to be redefined.

Such a huge undertaking.
Gawd, people exhaust me.
I am so tired.--

Don't they though? I agree with that completely!

As for your dad, there is no easy solution. Whatever your energy and emotions [read: heart] tells you to do ... I was 'your dad' to our daughter only the 'mother' version but not so infrequently. We were honestly blessed with a child who grew up to respect us though she simply could not agree with the religion she was raised in and would not ever commit to it. [and believe me, I was an overbearing VERY critical mother] She wore her pain -- that which our religious differences produced - very stoicly. She reflected back respect and unconditional love. In time, it was her unwavering personal integrity driven by her capacity for love which began to wear me down. When I left I called her our Shekinah Light because her love and peace continued to shine towards us eventually leading us out of a place of legislated love [gasp:gasp] into a life where we could fully explore our heart's capacity to feel and to exhibit that love to all regardless of any differences we may personally have with them. It is a much better place to embrace people wholly than to judge them summarily! Perhaps, if your heart inclines you in the future your love will attract your folks from their loveless life. Lord knows they need a good swift love jumpstart to their hearts...the FDS manages to stifle the hearts of their following and slow it down to the slowest setting to support life...it gives them the dependency they need as a leadership to have full government over their membership! If you can, love your folks to death...death being their departure from the WTS grip.

12

People turn back to the religion they know best, when in distress.

by free2beme in

jw
friends

as a teenager, i was not real into the religion.

i went to meetings, lived by my mothers rules, and had a lot of witness friends.

on the flip side, i had dated nonwitness people in high school, was sexually active, drank and partied on the weekends and hide it well from my mom.

mama bear

Freetobeme said: -- The thing is, this is so common. As much as people will say they dislike the religion or they do not believe in it. I have seen time and time again, people return to that religion or what ever religion they were raised in, when times of distress happen, as it is the comfort zone or what they feel most basic in believing. Has anyone else experienced something like I mentioned happen in my life. I know a few former Witnesses locally, that had things like this happen. Just wondered if others on here, did the same. --

You are correct..what we know brings us comfort unless what we know has been the source of such horrific trauma it drives us back even further. For us, it was the trauma of being a Witness which drove us out and back to what we had been 30 yrs earlier...we tried going to different churches and all of them were nothing like what we had expected after being Witnesses for 3 decades but they also really did nothing for us that close personal relationships with others and deeply committed personal spiritual habits could not accomplish. So, just as we were before becoming Witnesses we are now -- just the three of us, a family, older, wiser and in a better place because we took the WT detour through religion. We have culled favorable things from our lives as Witnesses. Things from the lifestyle we really made our own because we truly were convinced of their validity but it is not anything that is uniquely the WTS making. As it turns out, many of our friends, from many different Christian and non Christian sects, have similar morals, similar beliefs, similar faith and hope and similar lifestyles, similar world view, preferring a close family to heavy socialization in any grouping.

21

It just seems that Witnesses are less active these days.

by free2beme in

jw
friends

i remember being a teenager and being at friends home on saturdays, and every time you turn around there was a witness knocking at the door.

my non-witness friends would be nice, and say no, as they did not want to insult me.

even though, as a teenager, i was not a witnesses (baptized) and did not make a public show of my connection to people outside of the congregation.

mama bear

Freetobeme said: -- I remember being a teenager and being at friends home on Saturdays, and every time you turn around there was a Witness knocking at the door. My non-Witness friends would be nice, and say no, as they did not want to insult me. Even though, as a teenager, I was not a Witnesses (baptized) and did not make a public show of my connection to people outside of the congregation. I remember going to shopping centers, and seeing Witnesses working the corners or even handling out tracts to people leaving coffee shops and so on. I just plain remember, them being a lot more visible and active in the past. Now, I am in my yard on almost any given Saturday morning, when the weather is good. On only a couple of occasions in 5 years of living here in a large neighborhood, have I seen a Witness in the door to door work. I have not seen them doing street work, in who knows how long, and even friends I work with have commented on their less appearances at the door. Not that I am complaining or anything, but for an organization that claims to be working so many hours in the door to door work, I just don't see them as much as I used too and wondered if others noticed this, as well. --

I live in an area where there are three congregations within a 20 linear mile distance. I live about halfway into that 20 miles. In the 4 yrs I have lived here, and I am at home during the week and on week ends often, there has been very infrequent activity. About 4 months ago a couple who are Witnesses moved into the house next to us. They still wave at us and smile ..obviously ignorant of the apostates who live right next door to them. This is quite the statement when you consider these folks have the meeting for service in their home on one of the week end days and in all these months obviously have not worked their own street where the territory card would have the big red A for apostate smack dab on our home! I believe the phenomenon may be attributed to a multiple of reasons...1] More and more households have both spouses working and week end activity is a minimal when it comes to field service; 2] More and more individuals who are not working are finding it more advantageous to be 'sick' which gives them sanctioned excuses for not participating in the many facets of the active JW lifestyle; and last but surely not least by any stretch of the imagination, living out here in the remote areas of our community people have come to rely on cable and internet access as a means to stay in touch and I believe the internet activity of many Witnesses for a plethora of reasons may be keeping them off the streets! The alleged 'staunch' ones may be doing their 'witnessing' online and counting that time while others may be busily apprising themselves of some seriously existing facts which compromises their belief system and may be dealing with the reality of disillusionment as have we all. The Service Report each year does not divide the methodology employed by individual Witnesses in how they go about 'accomplishing their ministry' they merely give the cliff notes and lump the hours in together not really stating how they are being spent.

Just some conjecture from an observant former Witness.

By the way, I am soooooooooooooo genuinely thrilled you are FREE TO BE YOU! That is one of the most precious gifts we are given when we leave is the FREEDOM to be who we really are!

4

Racial/Religious hatred laws

by KAYTEE in

jw
friends

with the interest in racial / religious hatred laws.

(im talking about the laws that exist or soon will do in the u.k) i wonder if some of the magazines that we have seen over many years could be viewed as breaking this law.. to name just a few of the points.

encouraging their members to shun ones, who may for various reasons, have stopped going to their place of worship.by inciting their members to view these ones as "apostates", and thereby doomed to die at armageddon.

mama bear

Gil said: -- They could then claim Perseuction! Persecution! when the law comes down on their members! --

This is perhaps one of the more humorous though ultimately offensive aspects of the JW belief system. They deliberately set themselves up for derisive remarks by engaging in bullying behavior and then have the temerity to say they are being persecuted! It is funny because they do it and get away with it on the inside but highly offensive to those on the outside who truly know what persecution is! And all the more today with the news so filled with REAL persecution! When you can stop public transportation with people from your own country who are part of your own religion only a different sect of it and then kidnap and slaughter them thereafter strewing their bodies as a public spectacle of your heinous acts THAT is persecution! Getting someone to say something unfavorable about you because you stuck your finger in their eye is not persecution it is just desserts! The arrogance of this group, [I feel true remorse from ever having felt and exhibited this behavior myself as a Witness], is astounding and quite disgusting. As I said, it is funny on the one hand because it is so twisted but more offensive on the other because it trivializes the ones who are truly being and have been persecuted through no fault of their own! Even within their own group it should be offensive! The poor souls in Malawi who were brutalized and then murdered who were Witnesses truly suffered PERSECUTION. Not because they distributed a KN which had an inflammatory title but because their religious leaders invoked their 'neutrality' doctrine which put these poor souls at odds with their government and led to their persecution. As it turns out, though this happened 30 plus years ago, this particular type of terroristic persecution is now being visited upon anyone who does not fall into line with a ruling or prevailing ideology and creates for all the world a true and immediate example of what REAL persecution looks like. Here in America and in other 'freer' parts of the world where Jehovah's Witnesses proudly exhibit their 'persecuted' banner I hope folks will remind them they are in no way being persecuted because folks disagree and say as much. These folks need to have everyone point out that when you are in their face with caustic and religiously offensive commentary you are going to hear about it and having someone point out your error is considered a 'favor' by most 'thinking' individuals--not persecution!

19

I am so angry

by hambeak in

jw
friends

my partner hambeak is a great guy.

i have known him over 20 years.

he is the most kind and gentle person i know.

mama bear

XU said: -- Hey hambeak's partner. I don't know if you are still up reading or if you just had to vent, but I feel you. Some of us in his situation have different ways to deal with it, but most of us will justify our families' behavior to some extent because we understand where they are coming from or we used to be like that ourselves. It's really especially frustrating to our partners who weren't exposed to the bizzare world of witnesses. People that hear the stories are like, whoa, that's crazy! But people that have to live with us in the aftermath really see how sick and wrong and cruel it is. Hambeak is fortunate to have you on his side. --

So true! So very true! Yet, as seen by the person who has been so personally affected as Gary's partner, one of the single most repulsive things seen by the outsider and NEVER understood is the whole 'shunning' aspect of their beliefs. While most of us who were once Witnesses engaged this facet of behavior ourselves while Witnesses and fully understood that it was expected, there are some who did it while privately not agreeing with it. It runs against human nature to cut someone off who has allegedly made a mistake instead of showing them compassion and trying to encourage them through their alleged 'sin' state of mind. The fact is though that with each shunned person who is so vehemently treated there are those looking on who WILL NEVER become a Witness because of that! And that circle of NEVER GONNA BE's grows exponentially with the exposure of the shunned one to nonWitnesses who see nothing wrong with the individual being shunned and the effects of the shunning on the individual. This effects those who the shunned one works with, socializes with, neighbors with, shops with, etc. I have a daughter [the one who we went to bat with because her step father abused her..we legally adopted her after we were all tossed out of the Org] and a granddaughter who live here in this very small town. The last time I saw my granddaughter was 7 yrs ago when we disassociated from the Org. Her mother remains married to her elder husband and on the active rolls, though from what I have heard from nonWitnesses who we have in common she is not necessarily living a Witness life by going to meetings or out in the ministry...she is playing the 'sick' card. Because it is such a fundamental aspect of their belief system that mankind is so far removed from perfection as this system progresses, being ill is like a confirmation of their religious doctrine so the more ill you claim to be the more excusable your lack of 'Witness' activity is because you trade off the meeting attendance and field service for being so imperfect!

Also, I am the president of a local non profit organization who manages a staff of around 10. One of the office staff is a Witness. The Witness must communicate with me because it is 'business' but the board of directors and fellow staff are beside themselves that there is so obvious a case of shunning and they all know me...they know I don't do anything that is considered 'sinning' except that I disagree with the JW doctrine adamantly! To me, this is the best tool for a former Witness to have in their arsenal! It serves as a visual and tangible example of a destructive doctrine which creates in the onlooker a firm grasp of what they would never want to personally experience.

I am so sorry for the pain this doctrine causes the individuals who are being shunned because whether we understand it or not we still have feelings and in so many cases are far and away not really so 'evil' as this sort of behavior suggests. Let me join the cast here in sending you my sincere condolences for having to see the effects on someone you love and especially because you know your partner is so undeserving of this. This is like a prophalactic shot for you...seeing this and understanding its devastation on your partner hopefully will create antibodies in you against ever falling prey to this religion and especially this doctrine.

May God bless you both and bring you healing peace in abundance.